Monday, February 21, 2011

The History of the Palomino

Phil Newman comments on another post...

I just came across the Palomino club whilst browsing. I used to work in the factory where these buses were built and thought you might be interested in some background.

Absolutely! I think to most of us, the background to these vans is obscure, and consists of what little scraps we've scavenged over the years.
The first Palominos were built by Bariban Motorhomes of Newton Abbot in Devon in 1979-80. We also built the Mercedes Autobahn and the VW Autostrada. The Palomino was a real eye-catcher when it was launched as no other VW bay at that time had such a grand high-top or luxurious interior.

The first of the original Bariban Palominos, based on the 2-litre Type 2’s, were produced in 1979. They were designed by Tony Dilnott . I remember being shown the prototype when I went for my interview in 1978 and production started soon after. The Palomino name came from the managing director who had an interest in all things equine. We only converted new bodies, produced in RH and a few LH drive and the only colour Bariban produced was white. The fibreglass roof was made to match that colour. The originals had ‘stylish’ stick on decal strips (go-faster stripes), but they were a bit guady and I doubt if many survived. stylish go-faster stripes!

The production run was quite short because VW stopped producing Type 2s in 1979. However, the design was adapted for the new VW T25. The prototype for this model, whose roof was a cut-down of the earlier version, ran into problems when VW refused to guarantee the body of the van if it rolled, because for our design we had to cut out the large central roof bar. These had to be left in place in all future models, covered by carpet and used to support the upper bunks. If you own an original T25 palomino without a roof spar, then it could well be the prototype.

Before production of the T25 really got off the ground, Bariban went bust. Some months later, all the models, roof moulds and stock were bought at auction by a shady (dodgy) but likeable ‘geezer‘ from London who re-opened the works in May 1980 on a much reduced scale and called it Heritage Motorhomes. I was one of the first to be re-employed there and I remember preparing three vans, one of each model, as demonstrators which were photographed for the glossy brochures. I still have mine in the attic somewhere (I think). We ticked over for another 14 months producing a few T25s and a few Type 2s, usually for customers who brought their own second hand vans but rarely on new bodies.

Gradually, bills became unpaid and the bespoke suppliers who made the roofs, water tanks, metalwork, bunks etc stopped supplying us and the Newton Abbot factory closed in July 1981. The moulds for both types of Palomino roofs were moved to London where I believe roof conversions continued. I’d be interested to know what happened after that. I’m not sure if full conversions of interiors to the original spec also continued, but many of the components were fabricated in Newton Abbot so they would have had to replicate them somehow. Also, the furniture, faced with Afromosia veneer was hand-built and fitted by us at Newton Abbot so the new builders would have had to re-learn that too. For some reason the later Heritage conversions don’t have the black steel luggage racks on the front as on the the originals. The angle in the roof was especially designed to accommodate the rack and they look odd without it – perhaps they broke off or have been removed. If you own an all white Palomino on a 1979 (T or V) plate, then it’s likely to be one of the original Bariban production run. If the original body is any other colour, then it’s a Heritage conversion. I notice one or two examples in your gallery have no roof slit windows and these are definite roof only conversions, done after the Newton Abbot factory closed. The original roofs were seated onto the body with flanged rubber.

I hope this is of interest. Let me know if there’s anything else you need to know and I’ll try and remember. Its good to see a few the old buses that worked on are still on the road and appreciated by you guys.

Phil Newman (still of newton Abbot)


Thanks again Phil. It's absolutely fascinating to hear this information from someone who worked on these vans. I for one am thankful that your workmanship was so good that it's still going strong 30 years later!

26 comments:

Unknown said...

Fantastic to have this information - such interesting stuff! It's been virtually impossible to find any history or background on Palominos until now, but then Alex's brochure and Phil's account come along almost at the same time!

Phil, if you read this, one thing I'd like to know is how many of the original T2s were made - do you have a rough idea?


This would make a fantastic story for Camper and Bus magazine - an article with Phil getting re-aquainted with Ian's original, un-altered Palomino, maybe? Would you be up for that?

Anonymous said...

Fantastic article.I hope mine is a Bariban because it was white originally but lovely bright red now with original interior (except seats).

Phil said...

Pippa

I don't remember the precise figure but it wouldn't have been a great number because, if I remember correctly, the T2 Palomino was only in production for few months. Off the top of my head I'd say less that 100 but it was 30 years ago now and its all a bit blurred. We did quite a few other models too.

Yes I'd love to see a Palomino again. The reason I was browsing VW bays and discovered this page in the first place was because I'm toying with buying a camper. A Palomino would be my first choice but I don't think I could handle the worry of trying to maintain a 30-year old vehicle.

Phil

Unknown said...

Hi Phil!

I thought there couldn't have been all that many made. I've probably seen about 20 surviving T2 Palominos now, either in the flesh (erm, should that be "steel"?) or advertised for sale.

I only know of 2 left-hand drive ones though - Claude and Tom's Belgian Palomino, so I guess there must only have been a handful of those converted.

I wish I still owned Claude - I'd invite you to get re-acquainted with him straight away! But sadly I've now gone for the characterless comfort of a T4 instead. :(

Is anyone out there up for showing off their Palomino? I might just get onto the C&B magazine anyway!

And if you want a beautifully maintained ridiculously low mileage Palomino, and if you have £25K to part with, you don't get much better than the van for sale on this website:
http://www.qualitycampers.co.uk/index.html

Go on...do it! :)

Pippa

Anonymous said...

How many T25 palominos were made please?

Anonymous said...

hi phil,great read,i have a 79 lt im pretty sure its a bariban conversion,did bariban do many vwlt28,s cheers antony

Anonymous said...

Hi Phil, great to get some info on Bariban. I have a 79 VW Autostrada, LT28. I also have an original bariban brochure for it as well as a Heritage one for the Autostrada 2. Have been restoring our wonderful van over the past few years, she's back on the road now, but still has a little way to go on the full restoration. It would great to hear about anymore info you may have on the Autostrada. Cheers Justin

Anonymous said...

Hi Justin,
The LT28 Autostrada was my favourite of the Bariban conversions. The body was slightly wider than the Merc so it seemed more spacious and the shower was bigger. The sliding door was useful too. The material covering the upholstery was either a simple brown stripe (or was it check?)or a typical 70s large pattern velour called Gatsby which I was very fond of and had quite a bit of it in my Hillman Minx. The weak point of this conversion was the aluminium strip that sealed the front of the roof which would not bent around the curved corners properly and looked really shabby – probably still does. The worst job was fitting the water tank which had to be held in place with jacks while the brackets were fitted. Half an hour lying on your back with arms in the air often to find that the tank leaked when filled with water and had to be replaced.
As to the total number T25 Palominos – I doubt if it was many because Bariban went caput only months after the prototype was developed and we did no more than 15 or 20 at Heritage. But it was a long time ago and I can’t be certain of the exact number.
The sad thing about Bariban was that the conversions were really popular and in high demand right up to the day they went bust. Not sure what went wrong.
All the best
Phil

Mal78 said...

So fascinating to hear from someone who worked at Bariban. I have a '76-'77 LT28 Autostrada with the Gatesby print on the upholstery and the original floral lino. These are such brilliant campers- the fragrant smell of real wood (not formica!) inside each cleverly designed cupboard.....I could go on! The old bus turns heads wherever she goes. Shame there's no website for the Autostrada.

Anonymous said...

Hi folks, good info on the Bariban factory. Ive recently got a 77 rhd version, white with the classic retro brown stripes which is going through a resto at present, however would be good to know the paint code for the metallic brown they used for the stickers and wheels etc. Or even who produced the original stickers ? Its a big project but should like a factory finish when completed ! thanks, Darren

Anonymous said...

Hi, i have a 79 t2 palomino for restoration if any one wants one
regards Lee

David Page said...

Someone recently asked me of my opinion of the VW Type 2 camper produced by Westfalia. This prompted me to look at the VW Palomino which was produced by my Company Bariban Motorhomes of Newton Abbot.

There are some inaccuracies in Phil's account and I have to confess that I do not recall him amongst the 70 or so employees, so apologies for that.

Firstly, the vehicle was not designed by Tony Dilnott, who was Works Foreman. This exercise was principally carried out by Derek Blackler and myself. I was responsible for the 'swan neck' roof which was a progression from my trademark roof design of the Mercedes Autobahn based on the MB L206D (but that is another story).

Derek and I designed and planned the interior whilst Tony carried out the prototype construction work.

In all there were approximately 70+ units produced, many of which went as Personal Exports via VW Export in Baker Street.

The early Palomino was a pre-cursor to the next generation that was to be based on the newly announced VW Transporter. It was my intention that this new model would gain official recognition and acceptance by VW/AUDI who were the concessionaires for the UK at the time.

We began to source these new Transporters via VW Export both in RHD and LHD well before the actual launch of the base vehicle in UKGB. This caused great consternation within the Dealer Network, our competitors (Devon Conversions) and VW/AUDI.

As far as VW/AUDI were concerned, they wanted to sanction and formally approve our Autostrada (a really great midsize van conversion). This was of course, a good deal but it was principal intention to tap the much bigger market for the smaller Transporter type. This unit behaved like a passenger car in both performance and practicality. We already had held meaningful discussions with many VW Concessionaires throughout the World including the USA. In other words I thought there was the opportunity to take the model global.

Unfortunately and not without some back door lobbying by Devon Conversions and Westfalia to VW/AUDI, our initial source of unofficial vans was compromised and the vehicles had to be returned to VW Export for compounding and to await the official launch.

There were several examples of the new VW Transporter Palomino produced but by in large they were eventually shipped out to Australia.

The Type 2 Palomino was a very nice little RV. Every Friday afternoon, Derek and I would casually sit in one that was fresh off the line that day and study it to see what improvements could be made to the design or finish. Very occasionally, I would take my Family away in one of our demo' models, wherever we went it always caused great interest.

I hope that my brief stroll down 'Memory Lane' is of interest to your Club Members?

David Page - (ex MD Bariban Motorhomes)

Unknown said...

Hi all

Looks like this blog is a bit quiet, but I thought I'd comment anyway. The information here has been very useful and as a result I bought a blue and white 1980 T2 Palomino yesterday from a couple in Taunton.

I'm hoping Phil & David Page are still watching this thread as I am keen to know more about the 'beast' as I call it.

So, my M-Plate says R1R1 for the colour code - which is Pastel White top & bottom. It was first registered (in Preston I believe) in 1980. It's a RHD. The cabinetry inside looks just like the brochure elsewhere on this blog. There is no roof rack, just 4 lugs. The roof has a rubber seal around the base.

I think the doors have been replaced at some point, so I'm wondering what the original door cards were like.

I'm hoping this all makes it a Bariban original, as opposed to the later Heritage conversions.

Did Heritage do a full interior to the same spec?

David mentioned improvements made during the production run. Are there any tell tale signs to look for?

The finishes on the cabinets is looking tired, particularly where sunlight has taken its toll, we're considering painting it. So any tips from Pippa would be appreciated.

I don't supposed David has any construction plans or guides which might help us as I think at some point the cabinets need to come out and the roof will need to come off for tinwork repairs at roof and gutter level. I've been told just 5 screws down each side hold the the roof on.

We'll probably also try restoring the roof with GRP Oxidation remover and a sealer.

Any info will be most welcome. The adventure begins!

Thanks
Russell & Mia

Unknown said...

If there are any other Palomino Owners out there looking information and help, please see The VW Palomino Facebook Group here https://www.facebook.com/groups/153286324710982/

Unknown said...

Hi Darren
do you still have your Palamino? We have a Facebook group... search for Volkswagen Palomino.

Duncan said...

Hi I have this evening just discovered the thread I have recently purchased a 1976 LT28 Bariban Auto Strada, 1 owner from new and in immaculate original condition never needed or been restored,

I've pictures of it but I have no idea how to post them.

Fortunately I have all the history the original bill of sale from Godfrey Davis and a rather sexy full colour brochure with some well heeled country looking folk on the front of it, the content describing the performance and specification are very funny

The interior has been professionally re trimmed in the mid 80's it looks very in keeping

everything works, drives like brand new

an interesting thread

Cheers Duncan

Unknown said...

Hi Duncan

Good to hear about another Bariban out there in the wild. This blog has been quiet recently, so please see the posts above for a Facebook group for Palomino owners. Would be great to chat more on there

Russell

Unknown said...

Hi we have a 1980 VW LT28 Campervan which we believe is a Bariban Auostrada with a 2.0 petrol engine,The comments on here are great anymore info would be wonderful, If anyone has a brochure or an original roofrack for sale get in touch please.

russellfeeed said...

Hi

Afraid I don't have anything on the LT28. As it's a bigger vehicle than the T2 I assume the roof rack dimensions would be different. We had a replacement fabricated my a local company for about £250

russellfeeed said...

Also, Duncan above may know more about the LT28. Or try the Palomino Facebook group... all Baribans welcome

Robbo said...

Hi, not sure if this blog is still active but trying to find some details about the original Bariban side decals which Im about to reinstate on my original white 79 Bariban version. If anyone knows any detail, colour code, were they a flat colour or metallic etc as I want to try and get as close to the original template and colour/finish as possible. I might have one of the very few surviving white original ones!!
Darren

Unknown said...

Hi,I had the pleasure of owning a 79 palomino in Dublin for 4 years from 2003 to 2007 and travelled all over Ireland and took it to San Sebastian on an epic trip.Best days of my life and a seriously comfortable van.all original interior, deep red colour exterior.sold it in Northern Ireland,really hope it's still on the go!!

russellfeeed said...

@Robbo

I'm guessing you're the Darren I emailled last year based near Bude. Looks like you have got the stripes all sorted now when I passed you the other week.

@Unknown

I don't suppose you remember the registration or part of it? I have a registry of Palominos and know of at least 2 that were last seen in NI/Eire.

russellfeeed said...

A reminder that the FB Group is the best place to catch up with Palomino owners old and new

https://www.facebook.com/groups/153286324710982

Anonymous said...

We’ve had our palomino for the last 13year, our kids have discovered the joys of wild camping but we have outgrown bumblebee. She needs some TLC as we’ve neither had the time nor energy to keep up with her maintenance for the last year. If anyone is interested in keeping her going please send me a message on sukisun5@gmail.com and I can send you some pictures! Merry Christmas

Suki said...

Turns out our bumblebee is famous she is the yellow T5 reg GOJ251W https://thecampervana.com/my-love-affair-with-elvis-palomino/ of course she is not as glamorous but still had the same spirit of adventure! As shared in the post above if anyone would like to buy her send a message to sukisun5@gmail.com for more up to date pictures. Thanks 🙏🏽